< Olivia Rodrigo wants you to decide what her songs are about

July 30, 2024

AILSA CHANG, HOST:

Olivia Rodrigo is on a trajectory to be one of the biggest pop stars in the world. She's already made history as the youngest artist ever to debut at the top of the Billboard Hot 100 chart. She's won three Grammys, and her first single, "Driver's License," has, as of now, garnered nearly 2 billion streams on Spotify. And guess what? She's only 20 years old, people. And now she's out with another No. 1 album, "Guts." It's a spunky, uproarious mix of riot grrrl rock and the kind of introspective ballad writing that's made Rodrigo a household name.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "THE GRUDGE")

OLIVIA RODRIGO: (Singing) And I try to understand why you would do this on me. You must be insecure. You must be so unhappy. And I know in my heart hurt people hurt people. And we both drew blood, but, man, those cuts were never equal.

CHANG: But despite all the success of her first album, Rodrigo told me that she wanted to showcase on this new album how much she has grown as an artist.

RODRIGO: I mean, I wrote "Sour" when I was 17, and I wrote most of "Guts" when I was 19 and 20. And I just think those few years in between 17 and 20 are probably, like, some of the most formative that you'll ever have in your life. I think I...

CHANG: Yeah.

RODRIGO: ...Grew so much just as a person, as a young woman. I think I just wanted "Guts" to maybe reflect that maturity. And I think that I'm a little bit more self-possessed and more confident and know what I want to say more, and I think the record is also kind of fun and a little cheeky at times.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BAD IDEA RIGHT?")

RODRIGO: Seeing you tonight, it's a bad idea, right? Seeing you tonight - whatever. It's fine. (Singing) Yes, I know that he's my ex, but can't two people reconnect? I only see him as a friend - the biggest lie I ever said.

That was a sort of side of me that I think didn't really get showcased a ton on "Sour" and something that I was happy to kind of express this time around.

CHANG: Well, I am so interested in this question of how an artist decides who to be when so many people around them are telling them what to be, right?

RODRIGO: Right.

CHANG: And you come from this long line of singers whose stories started with Disney - Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, Demi Lovato, not to mention, even back further, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera. And yeah, being a child star did help launch each of you. But have you found that that past kind of limits you, too, as you're trying to develop your own unique voice as an artist?

RODRIGO: I often think about that lineage of - you know, I'm very proud to be a part of that group of women. I think they're incredible. I have always been very steadfast in my desire to have complete creative control over my career. And I think there's this perception of a Disney girl, this archetype of a Disney girl who's this sort of pop star who maybe sings other people's songs or something like that. And that was always something that I resented growing up because writing songs is my first love. It's my biggest passion in life, and I just always wanted to have autonomy over what I said and did.

And I feel really, really incredibly fortunate that I've been able to forge a path in the music industry that feels completely like my own. I write all my songs. I - you know, I'm such a part of all of the creative of it. And yeah, I just feel incredibly fortunate that I was given an environment where I could do that. It's not something that I take for granted.

CHANG: What about the fact that you do have some pretty young fans? Is there a lot of pressure to live up to some image you cultivated years ago when you were a teenager while trying to now evolve as an adult? Like, is there some tension there as you're thinking about how to keep those young fans but give yourself voice to be the adult woman you are and say and talk about the things that you are living through in your adult life?

RODRIGO: I definitely think about that a lot.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "TEENAGE DREAM")

RODRIGO: (Singing) When am I going to stop being wise beyond my years and just start being wise? When am I going stop being a pretty young thing to guys?

I don't take it lightly when, you know, young girls come up to me and say that they look up to me or, you know, if I'm a role model for them in some way. And I've certainly gotten some side eyes from some concerned parents over the swearwords in my songs in my career.

CHANG: (Laughter).

RODRIGO: That's definitely happened. But I feel like I've grown up with so many incredibly strong, talented, inspiring role models - women songwriters that I've looked up to for a long time. And when I look back, I think that all of them were my heroes particularly because they were exactly who they were, and they didn't censor parts of themselves or cherry-pick parts of themselves to present to the public.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "TEENAGE DREAM")

RODRIGO: (Singing) I'll blow out the candles, happy birthday to me. Got your whole life ahead of you, you're only 19. But I fear that they already got all the best parts of me, and I'm sorry that I couldn't always be your teenage dream.

When I played shows for the last tour, I would just look out in the audience, and I'd see all these young girls who would, you know, be screaming these angry songs, just, like, crying and, like, feeling so many emotions that they could just let out at this concert. And that was always just the most inspiring thing to me. I think, you know, that's not something that girls are maybe encouraged to do on an everyday basis.

CHANG: It must be an amazing feeling to hear a stadium full of people repeating your words back to you. I can't imagine anybody doing that with an NPR story.

(LAUGHTER)

RODRIGO: I don't know. I don't know. You never know.

CHANG: I mean, you're reaching so many people, not just with your lyrics but with your sound. And I'm talking about people of all ages, particularly older people like me - because I hear influences in your music from artists that were big before you were even born, Alanis Morissette, Blink-182, Avril Lavigne, Green Day, Bikini Kill, '80s new wave.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BALLAD OF A HOMESCHOOLED GIRL")

RODRIGO: (Singing) I broke a glass, I tripped and fell. I told secrets I shouldn't tell. I stumbled over all my words. I made it weird. I made it worse. Each time I step outside, it's social suicide. It's social suicide.

CHANG: I mean, you have this huge range of musical influences in your songs. How did you acquire that taste in music? Like, are we listening to stuff that your parents would play when you were growing up in Southern California?

RODRIGO: Yeah, I think I give my parents a lot of credit for my music taste. They loved, like, '90s alternative rock, which is...

CHANG: Yeah.

RODRIGO: ...Like, probably my favorite genre of music. I love listening to that. Also, I think at a young age, I kind of fell in love with female singer-songwriters for the first time. I remember I got a record player for Christmas one year. My grandma got me a record player. I was probably 12 or 13. And my mom and I would go to the thrift store, and we'd pick out records that we thought were cool and looked interesting. And that's how I kind of fell in love with Carole King and Pat Benatar and Joni Mitchell and all of these female singer-songwriters that I just thought were the coolest and then just wanted to emulate.

CHANG: You had a way cooler upbringing than I did.

RODRIGO: I doubt that.

CHANG: I was doing math flashcards while you were at the record store (laughter).

RODRIGO: Oh, I was doing plenty of that, too (laughter).

CHANG: Well, speaking of growing up in Southern California, are you still really bad at parallel parking? - because I am.

RODRIGO: Oh, this is a great question.

CHANG: (Laughter).

RODRIGO: OK. We're talking about growth, you know, from 17 to 20. In my first album, I talked about how I was bad at parallel parking.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "BRUTAL")

RODRIGO: And I'm not cool, and I'm not smart. And I can't even parallel park.

And actually, I think I am OK now. It's my crowning...

CHANG: Really?

RODRIGO: It's my highest achievement. Like, I'm so proud of myself. I worked on it for a while.

CHANG: Well, maybe you're going to have to give me lessons and practice with me because I am 47 years old, and I'm still really awful at it.

RODRIGO: (Laughter) Anytime.

CHANG: Olivia Rodrigo - her new album, "Guts," is out now. Thank you so much, Olivia. I so loved talking to you.

RODRIGO: Oh, my gosh. The pleasure's all mine. Thank you again for having me.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "LOVE IS EMBARRASSING")

RODRIGO: (Singing) And now it don't mean a thing. God, love's just so embarrassing. Just watch as I crucify myself.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

ncG1vNJzZmivp6x7r7zRZ6arn1%2Bpv6K60pypoqikqHxyfo9qb2poYmqG